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View Full Version : You really want boards with 4 tapered edges?



fulcrum
14-08-2011, 04:15 PM
At Ames request, let me ask this in a new thread.
Someone was berating why the drywall suppliers didn't supply boards with tapers on teh short sides as well as the long ones. Given that their process is essentially extrusion and therefore relatively easy to do stuff in 2 dimensions (width and thickness) but almost impossible to do stuff in the 3rd (length dimension) I can see why they don't want to do it.
So if it's going to happen it's going to be something that happens off-line, probably in the field. Seems to be a perennial debate. There are several ways of using backer boards to spring a taper into the front where two boards meet. Someone sells MDF boards with the taper already cut in it. However I've seen the same board sitting in my local drywall store covered in dust for the last two years so they're obviously not selling too many of them (here at least). Is this because nobody cares that much, the tapered boards are too expensive or what?
The reason for all this rambling is that while we were developing our curved corners for drywall, we were forced to develop a way to put an edge taper on them if they were matching up to long edges. (see photos on my profile). The same method can be easily adapted to put tapers on a board either in the shop or in the field. After this thread we tried it on a couple of boards in our shop. Works fine. Question is does anybody give a hoot? It takes a couple of minutes but I think would be less time and effort than feathering out that humped seam.

2buck
14-08-2011, 05:42 PM
No it's pointless to have a bevell on the butt end, some problems arise as I see them.

In the corners, (on lay downs) the top sheet could be no bevell, well the bottom one is.
You could end up having a butt with one side a bevell, then a cut edge to it, either from the rocker being lazy, or b/c framing can go off center.
personally, I think it would be better to have drywall with one bevell down the one length of it. I know thats crazy, but on horizontals, (in houses mainly) sometimes the bevell can cause more harm than good when dealing with angles. Maybe just do it to the sheets that are larger than 8 foot maybe (2.5m).

Just when ever I drywall, I try to cut the bevell off when it's a stand up in a corner, or pre-fill it sometimes so.......

fulcrum
15-08-2011, 12:17 PM
That was kind of the point. Manufacturers are never going to produce boards with beveled ends - both because it doesn't fit their process but also, as you say, because you don't always want the ends beveled. So if there was a way to bevel the edges quickly and simply on site, would it be of interest? More specifically if it required a tool that cost $100 + $2 for a 4' length and took about two minutes would anyone do that verses feather the butt joint?

Brian S
15-08-2011, 08:06 PM
Sounds good to me Fulcrum, are you working on such a tool?

amestaper
16-08-2011, 09:16 AM
At Ames request, let me ask this in a new thread.

Only for two reasons my friend. So the topic will be easier to search in future and so we don't hijack the other fellas thread.


That was kind of the point. Manufacturers are never going to produce boards with beveled ends - both because it doesn't fit their process but also, as you say, because you don't always want the ends beveled. So if there was a way to bevel the edges quickly and simply on site, would it be of interest? More specifically if it required a tool that cost $100 + $2 for a 4' length and took about two minutes would anyone do that verses feather the butt joint?

It also doesn't sound like board manufacturing changes are about to happen anytime soon so what are you proposing fulcrum?

My annoyance is that most sheets are hung vertically over in the UK and I find that using using larger sheets to fit when some walls are over 2.4 metres high just seems too much trouble for some board hangers. For example when standard 2. 4 metre (8 foot) boards are used, I find a 300mm (12") butt joint to tape just short of the ceiling on a 2.7m high ceiling untidy, and this is one situation I would like to use at least a 3 way bevel if the right sized 2.7 metre boards couldnt (or wont) be used.

And why not 4 tapered edges for ceilings?

belmoreboy
16-08-2011, 12:46 PM
you can actually get plasterboard with 4 tapered edges
http://www.british-gypsum.com/products/plasterboard___accessories/gyproc_standard/gyproc_wallboard_4te.aspx

not sold very much of it but we did have a run of customer ordering for large contract.

Its twice the price of standard board so most just put up with 2 x straight and 2 x tapered edge i guess.

fulcrum
16-08-2011, 01:03 PM
No problem you're the boss:)
I'm not totally sure where we might be going with this. We developed a fairly easy way to put tapered edges onto panels for our curved corners. Seeing that last thread with the tool from Down Under made me think that the same method could be used to put a taper on the butt edge of a board. Our set up was made to operate here in our shop where we are producing the corners so it is far from portable but I don't see any reason it couldn't be made into a simple, light, cheap power tool that could operate anywhere.
The bigger question was, if we did it would anybody buy it. We are unashamedly a manufacturer and we make our living by making stuff people want to buy.
The whole deal about separation of hangers and tapers seems like a killer. If the hanger doesn't want the extra time to use the right length sheet, for sure he doesn't want to take the extra time to put a taper on the edges of the shorter sheet. So there goes my dream of the big yacht. But it seems like there might be a niche, either for small operations where one person is doing it all and doesn't care where he saves the time as long as overall it''s quicker/better or in large integrated operations where hangers and tapers are both employed by the same company so some higher power can decide that overall it's worthwhile. Also, as you said, ceilings would be a good place to do this.
So after all that rambling, it's looking like a quiet week. I'm going to fool around a little, make some tapers on butt ends and see how it works out.

amestaper
16-08-2011, 01:20 PM
you can actually get plasterboard with 4 tapered edges
not sold very much of it but we did have a run of customer ordering for large contract.

Its twice the price of standard board so most just put up with 2 x straight and 2 x tapered edge i guess.

Thanks mate.... and thats answered any argument it can't be created. Shame about the price though.


No problem you're the boss:)

I hope thats not how you see me. I'm just a regular taper who's still on the tools, struggling with the same problems as many others and reckon tools and building materials could be created, customised or developed faster than they have been in the past.

I'm an end user like most our members, and yourself, whoever developed the rocksplicer and the other fellow from Australia are inventors/distributors and this site is just the platform to discuss future developments and give you some honest feedback. Job done I'd say....

Keep up the good work!

fulcrum
16-08-2011, 01:21 PM
you can actually get plasterboard with 4 tapered edges

And you learn something new every day.
Thanks!

amestaper
16-08-2011, 01:36 PM
http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz86/amestaper/c14aede6.jpg





Image borrowed from the British Gypsum website via the link Marcus posted.

fulcrum
16-08-2011, 01:56 PM
Ames picture tells the whole story. They are forming the tapers off-line in a very similar way to how we produce the tapers for the curved corners.
So the big question is whether it's worth double the cost for a sheet verses the time and hassle of doing it on site. Guessing the answer will be 'it depends'. Big jobs would make sense to special order the corners, little one-offs it might be worth creating the taper on site. Anyhow, it's still a quiet week so we'll fool around some and see where it goes.

2buck
17-08-2011, 03:30 AM
your right with the separation of the rockers from the tapers. Rockers would not care in aiding us, and they would want more money.

It would be more for the one that does it all, small independents. plus it would half to have "wow factor" or be a game changer. Something simplistic that could be used on the job, so start thinking http://www.forumsextreme.com/images/sCo_hmmthink.gif

fulcrum
17-08-2011, 01:01 PM
No offense 2buck but it's a little tricky to find a 'wow factor' when talking about butt ends on a sheet of drywall.
We did put tapers on the butt end in the attached pics. Went a little easier than expected. The whole thing starting with making the tool and diving in the dumpster to find some scraps of drywall to play with only took an hour. Actually applying the taper is about the same time as say taping a corner.
We taped and mudded a joint - nothing special, looked just like any other long edge joint.

Not much 'wow' but it's simple, cheap and effective.

Tell me any one of you would buy this & I'll figure out how to scale it up for small volume production.

Brian S
17-08-2011, 09:09 PM
What are you reckoning on price, could well be interested

fulcrum
18-08-2011, 01:00 AM
Think it would be an attachment to an existing rotary tool - something less than $100 (60 quid) + maybe $2 (UKP 1.20) for a 4' (1.2m) length.
Many a slip twixt cup & invoice so let me do a little more investigating...

fulcrum
23-08-2011, 05:34 PM
Works just fine. See attached pics for a joint on a couple of butt edged boards. Takes a couple of minutes. I could get a couple of thousand produced for about $2 ea. If there really was any volume in doing this the price could come down.

Brian S
23-08-2011, 08:09 PM
Looks good:fing02:
Is this something we fit to a machine/drill to make the taper?

SikTendenciesRacing
07-10-2011, 06:51 AM
Where do I buy this tool? Very Interested!

NOTE: I like that you can bevel the one side of the drywall that is butting up to the other butt but keep the other side flat that goes into the corner,, where the drywall that comes with 4 tapered edges could really be annoying to glaze the corners with that tapered edge hahaha.

Gary
714-392-5929

fulcrum
07-10-2011, 03:04 PM
If you (or anyone else in the US) want to send me a PM with your address then as soon as it's ready I will send you a sample to take a look at. Just to manage your expectations - I'm not saying this is a universal panacea for all butt problems. For our curved corners we needed a way to create edge tapers if they were going to be matching up to a factory taper edge rather than a butt. This is what we came up with. As we started introducing the curved corners we had someone ask if we could do the same thing to create a taper for butts on drywall as we were doing for our corners. Turns our it was relatively simple. Our curved corners are just starting to reach the volumes where we have to get a little more 'productionized' so we are producing dies for the tapers. We decided to call it EZ-Taper and see how useful it is for anybody else.
There are plenty of other buttboard products out there which are are back strips with slots or tapers cut into them so that the board end will flex to create a taping recess. I'm not going to claim that we're better than them - just different. I can see many times when they would be a better solution and times when we would.
EZ-Taper will allow you to put the joint onto existing studs instead of having to space it in between which isn't always easy depending on what else is in the wall cavity.
EZ-Taper will allow you to have a factory edge against a butt edge.
EZ-Taper is lighter and cheaper.
EZ-Taper doesn't take up space in the cavity wall that should otherwise be filled with insulation.
Buttboard etc are certainly quicker to use. I'm sure there are many other advantages/disadvantages both ways.
BTW - for anyone in the US MidWest we'll be exhibiting the Curve Corners at the Remodeling Show in Chicago - stop by and say hello if you are there.

guijarrero
17-10-2011, 03:42 AM
Hi, I use to speak in spanish (I'm from Argentina) so its possible missunderstand thread..
I found over there a solution for butt joints that I found genial
look
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-to/tips/invisible-drywall-butt-joints.aspx
regards

fulcrum
17-10-2011, 12:40 PM
Hola! Seems like you understood perfectly.
There are several commercial products out there that look just like the board described in your article. Also I believe quite a lot of folks who would make up the piece for themselves exactly as described in the article.
As I said above, I wasn't saying our product was a universal panacea for butt joints. It's just a way we developed to get tapers on our curved corners. Several drywallers saw them and liked the idea of having an alternative with tsome of the advantages listed above. There's always a bunch of different ways to do the same thing - just a matter of figuring out which one makes most sense for you for each situation.