View Poll Results: How much should a taping job cost? Please tick 2 boxes

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  • 5.50+ m2

    2 6.67%
  • 5.00+ m2

    3 10.00%
  • 4.50+ m2

    2 6.67%
  • 4.00+ m2

    7 23.33%
  • 3.50+ m2

    12 40.00%
  • 3.00+ m2

    5 16.67%
  • 2.50+ m2

    1 3.33%
  • 3.00+ beads

    11 36.67%
  • 2.50+ beads

    2 6.67%
  • 2.00+ beads

    0 0%
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Thread: Construction Rates........ youre having a laugh

  1. #1
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    Default Construction Rates........ youre having a laugh


    i thought this would make everyone cringe, this is what the construction rates web site offers as a suitable rate for general taping and jointing.

    Generally Tape & Jointing; measured flat including
    reveals and all internal & external angles >300mm 7.50pm2

    maybe the site is based on contracts in the Mayfair region of London, or on cloud 9

    http://www.constructionrates.co.uk/R...tes.co.uk.html
    www.pristinecoatings.co.uk

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    Season ticket holder amestaper's Avatar
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    Much as I dislike to piss on peoples parades, this is probably true rates that a QS will charge.
    On two occasions I've been privvy to a QS rate of more than 6.50 a metre just for the taping, and the other I got to find out by accident due to a piece of paper a main contractor carelessly left lying at their arse.

    It makes it all the more sad that some guys are working for less than a 1 a m2, earning not even 20% of the jobs true value.

    I hate to be critical but many workers in the building trade dont have the backbone to say "Stick your job, I wont work for that." The vicious circle drives prices down while every other industry rams theirs up in line with inflation. This is plain madness, but so easy to sort the problem if everyone has the same attitude.

    Straying away from the topic, but I for one think that document carries some authority. Some guys in the trade who are struggling on low wages just may refuse to, or be blinkered into believing this is not really happening.
    Last edited by amestaper; 02-02-2011 at 11:37 AM. Reason: typo errors
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    I think your spot on, if you look on the other rates on that site they are 100% correct. so someone is making that money and it aint the poor guy doing the work. I was recently sent over an email bill of quants by a main contractor and they had forgotten to take out their figures. they wanted me to spray 800m2 of bare block wall to a finish for 3.00pm2 however they were going in at 6.00pm2, making 100% profit on my work. for that they wanted me to spray the entire job with block filler and finish with a coloured eggshell, a fair rate for this would have been 4.50 - 4.75pm2, The main contractors seem to be better off in the "down turn" as they are still charging top rates while they are making the subbies drop their rates. their profits go up ours go down.
    www.pristinecoatings.co.uk

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    Season ticket holder amestaper's Avatar
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    It's ignorance that has allowed this modern day slavery to happen my friend. Hopefully many tapers will read this and have their eyes opened. Its all an illusion created by greedy individuals who dont have our best interests at heart and are richer due to our failure to ask questions.

    Prices are rocketing, and if you can tell me any other industry that has dropped their rates to 1990's prices (Margins were also much better due to materials and fuel costing much less remember) then I will cut one of my nipples off and mail it to you.

    This site is as good a place as any to vent frustrations and ask difficult questions. Spread the word Sir.
    Last edited by amestaper; 02-02-2011 at 12:20 PM. Reason: Smallprint: I will not mail you my nipple
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    spray skimming here is another one, now i know that people are getting paid around 7.50 for this type of work as that's what i got for a recent contract but that includes taping & Jointing prior to application of spray plaster skim and primer surfacer. however you will see what the recommended rates are, i am not sure how current they are but they surely havent dropped that much. Also the prices they state are based on the taping being done by others. makes you think?.

    Spray apply plaster system as per clause M60 - 199


    USG / Sto / Alltek Spray Applied Plaster System, Prices, Plaster application using airless spraying /m2 Supply and Apply Specialist Applicators

    General surface of plasterboard (taped and jointed by others) exceeding 300mm girth 18.44/m2 exceeding 300mm girth; in stair areas 22.10/m2
    www.pristinecoatings.co.uk

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    I put up 200 mtrs of coving in a new house as a clients 'extra' on a midas Homes site a couple of years ago. I charged the contractor 3 a metre. Midas were charging the client 8. Greedy fcukers.

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    All this shit about rates going back to prehistoric levels may be somewhat true but some large contractors are really takin the piss. My father is a recently retired q s and i often show him a job i need to price and the final figure he comes up with can be double mine. I recently put in a price for a large 3500 sq ft house inside and outside based on his advice (sand cement outside,sand cement then skim inside-antiquated method- mf ceilings on gf boarded on first floor) this house is up and down its like a castle lots of outside bands and detail, high ceilings. Another shower of fools priced job @ 120 euro per day x 3 men said would take 9 weeks to finish it worked out at half my price. Client is a personal friend of mine (wealthy guy) and thinks i am takin the piss. The lads will prob drag job out for 12 weeks and have guaranteed work but they are killing prices and dragging us all down. Price i put in is standard price any qs would reasonably charge how does the plastering of a million euro palace come in at less than 20 grand?
    My point is that lads the main contractors are easily makin double off our rates. My father often sighs when i tell him what im working for. A lot of the time i agree with him and dont bother getting out of bed to work for those shit rates but you can only stay at home looking out the window for so long before money and patience run out. I repeatedly beg other tapers not to work for the terrible rates offered and if we all charged the same reasonable rates we would all make the same good money and share in the work that is out there. Unfortunately some guys in the trade are afraid to speak up,dont know what the value of their trade is or just too damn silly. A lot simply have to agree to work for those rates to put food on the table for their families - sad state of affairs...
    As Amestaper says 'stick your job i wont work for that" and things might start to change but only if WE ALL say it.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to happytaper For This Useful Post:

    amestaper (04-02-2011)

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    Season ticket holder amestaper's Avatar
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    Would you like me to change your username to damnangrytaper?
    Good post. By way of education, you may just have made someones life a little more rewarding next time they measure a job.

    I think unsustainable rates have been caused by fear of losing your job, and main contractors who accepted poor quality work from untrained shysters and imposters allowed this current situation to happen. Rob mentioned every other trades rates were on the button - are we dumb enough to think its just a typo or anomoly thats made a big impact on take home pay ---- Just for tapers? Something went wrong and I'd like to think all the members combined may be able to do something about it.

    Running to stand still and busting your ass just to break even is crazy. The definition of insanity is making a mistake, not learning from it and doing the exact same thing over and over. I know firms who buy their work just to keep their staff busy.....
    WAKE UP!!!!
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    another question would be. is the taping or the painting the more difficult job? with emulsion material costs for mist + two coats of paint are between 0.45pm2 0.75pm2 depending what you use, and the commercial rate is between 3.25 & 4.50pm2 depending on where and what you are working on, so there isn't a lot of difference in material costs, and i would say that spraying or rollering a wall is the far easier job of the two from a manual labour point of view, so why are people being asked to tape and joint for less than 2.00pm2 in some places. doesn't make sense really, also if they are paying buttons then the chances are the job will be a two box instead of a three box and the finished wall will look crap anyway.Personally from my point of view, taping is a harder, more precise and time consuming job, (that's why i prefer spray painting) if the wall isn't finished to the highest of standards, the paint job will look crap anyway no matter what your putting on top. So if the painter gets 4pm2 the taper should get the same if not more..
    www.pristinecoatings.co.uk

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobPristine View Post
    another question would be. is the taping or the painting the more difficult job? with emulsion material costs for mist + two coats of paint are between 0.45pm2 0.75pm2 depending what you use, and the commercial rate is between 3.25 & 4.50pm2 depending on where and what you are working on, so there isn't a lot of difference in material costs, and i would say that spraying or rollering a wall is the far easier job of the two from a manual labour point of view, so why are people being asked to tape and joint for less than 2.00pm2 in some places. doesn't make sense really, also if they are paying buttons then the chances are the job will be a two box instead of a three box and the finished wall will look crap anyway.Personally from my point of view, taping is a harder, more precise and time consuming job, (that's why i prefer spray painting) if the wall isn't finished to the highest of standards, the paint job will look crap anyway no matter what your putting on top. So if the painter gets 4pm2 the taper should get the same if not more..

    I have just finished on a site today where the painters are getting on average 150-200 more per house than us tapers obviously we point this out often and loudly. The standard reply is that the painting is more skilled and if we dont like it there are plenty out there who will do it. As a painter myself i know that taping is the more demanding physically. but you cant paint a house till its taped, and taped properly.

    Having phoned around and spoken to a lot of various trades and management no one can see a change for the better happening any time soon, house bashing is all but done, i for one now chase more decorating jobs in the private sector, not what i want to be doing but i am not giving those the joy of thinking they have won.

  12. #11
    Season ticket holder amestaper's Avatar
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    Default How much should a taping job cost?

    Keeping with the theme which has been fairly active, I thought a poll would be a good guage of what you reckon we should be charging.

    This is not about what the rates are, but what the rates should be, including materials, for 3 coats and sanded with no snags or touch ups. I won't even offer the choice to highlight below 2.50 a metre as we are using our skills and experience we have taken years to learn to make some profit for ourselves, not other people. Arent we?

    Dont sell yourself short so please forget the crazy building site prices, and votes are anonymous so let us know what you think you are worth. You're allowed 2 votes - Once for the square meterage in slots 1-7 and one for corner tapes/beads slots 8-10.

    If these answers are as bad as I fear then I may consider working in B&Q soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMC View Post
    I have just finished on a site today where the painters are getting on average 150-200 more per house than us tapers obviously we point this out often and loudly. The standard reply is that the painting is more skilled and if we dont like it there are plenty out there who will do it. As a painter myself i know that taping is the more demanding physically. but you cant paint a house till its taped, and taped properly.

    Having phoned around and spoken to a lot of various trades and management no one can see a change for the better happening any time soon, house bashing is all but done, i for one now chase more decorating jobs in the private sector, not what i want to be doing but i am not giving those the joy of thinking they have won.
    I see that too, DMC. Working for a subby on house bash sites, the painters prices are 150 - 200 more than tapers prices but the painter will take 5 shifts as opposed to the tapers 2 or 3 shifts so the taper still earns more in the week

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    I dont really understand how the decorators can take so much longer, i guess its the type of job, on house builds the decs tend to use brush and roller on commercial they tend to use spray, we did a warehouse stud wall recently 1000m2, not being the best of tapers it took us four days to tape it and only two days to spray it. the spraying was done with two lads, the taping three lads, so which is the most labour intensive, its obvious, however the split in the original costing was that the spraying aspect got 4pm2 and the taping 2.80pm2, so to me it seems that the q.s thinks the spraying is the more expensive job in labour and materials when it obviously isn't. and like i said earlier, if the taper doesnt do the job right then the whole wall would look below par. If the decorator is provided with a good flat wall then its pretty difficult for the painter to mess it up.

    On the other hand i also think that on all jobs the taper should be responsible for putting a primer coat on. My reason for this is that on many occassions we have sprayed over joints which haven't been filled enough or sanded properly, you can only see the imperfections when they are highlighted by the primer coat, by that time the taper has left site and the painter is left with a nightmare. so the job should be tape, joint and prime, fix any imperfections, by the taper, then a couple of coats on top by the painter. job done and each trade should be paid 4.50pm2 each. therefore a finished wall from bare board should cost 9pm2, we would all know where we stood then, it would be easy
    www.pristinecoatings.co.uk

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    Season ticket holder amestaper's Avatar
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    C'mon lads. You were supposed to post a vote for metre rates and beads so some smart arse could work out ballpark average price when this vote came to a close.

    We're 8 votes short and I could find out who didn't click twice. Send me a PM so I can add it for you.
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    unfortunately the fact that there are people desperate for the work will always dictate the prices at the end of the day and the main contractors know that people need to put food on the table, consequently the rates will never be standard, its going to be whatever people are prepared to work for. the price will only change when there is more work and everyone is busy. then they will pay extra to make sure they get the job done.
    www.pristinecoatings.co.uk

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobPristine View Post
    I dont really understand how the decorators can take so much longer,
    On house builds, the painter has a lot of woodwork to do, which adds time

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    Season Ticket Holder DMC's Avatar
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    Had enough and walked of a site today. Did this particular house type last year, the price was 930, not great but you could make a few on it, loaded up this morning only to be told that they had to re jig there prices to be competitive and it was 785 take it or leave it. told them what i thought of them,there firm,there houses and walked if this is an example of how the trade is going to be going we may all be well and truly Fcked.

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    Thats a tough 1 to take mate but i take my hat off to you. If more people were prepared to walk then maybe these parasites would get the message. Hope you got somethin else lined up though

  20. #19
    Season ticket holder amestaper's Avatar
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    Thats a 15.5% drop in wages and I'd have done the same thing. Good for you and hope you find something else. Hows about letting us know who it was in the private members area behind the password protection?
    Weve got a thread there specifically to warn other members about rogue traders and dodgy people.
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    Aye good idea, we're in the same neck o the woods so let us know who they are lol

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