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Thread: How to Achieve a Level 5 Finish

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    Default How to Achieve a Level 5 Finish


    I have noticed that a few of you have discussed the Level 5 system, how it is achieved and the courses that we run.

    USG have been promoting a level 5 finish in the UK over the past two years to all architects, main contractors, drylining contractors etc .. who we come in contact with, and have supplied in excess of 500,000m2 of material in this timescale.

    The process of achieving a level 5 finish is quite simple, and by embrassing it, it will bring several benefits to you and your clients. Please visit our web-site which will explain the process in more detail - www.level-5.co.uk

    Without going into to much detail the training is FREE providing that you have a project to start, and we will work with you to secure your first project then look to train you around the timescales involved.

    The duration of the course is 3 days for a "time-served" taper and really concentrates on understanding the spray machine (Graco Mark V) and the smoothing off techniques.

    If anyone wants further information please let me know and I can arrange for brochures etc to be posted out, or even meet up for a chat.
    Cheers

    Michael

    Michael Anderson
    USG (UK) Ltd
    Tel :- 0770 331 4155
    E-Mail :- andersonm@usg.com
    Web-Site :- www.level-5.co.uk

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    admin (28-07-2009)

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    Do you think, perhaps too many builders compete on price alone to make this a viable selling point at the moment Michael?


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    Default Level 5 Finish - Costs

    We find that providing that the system costs are explained thoroughly then we tend to succeed.

    The key point to understanding the system is that it leaves a decorated surface which needs limited further decoration.

    Dryliners find that their m2 rate should increase which in term has an negative effect on the painters package.

    This is the key point to understanding the system thoroughly.

    The materials will never be as low as a bag of powder, but overall taking into account the decorators package, the system benefits far outway traditional methods of interior finishing.
    Cheers

    Michael

    Michael Anderson
    USG (UK) Ltd
    Tel :- 0770 331 4155
    E-Mail :- andersonm@usg.com
    Web-Site :- www.level-5.co.uk

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    Quote Originally Posted by USG View Post
    Dryliners find that their m2 rate should increase which in term has an negative effect on the painters package.
    A similar question was asked by the tapeinator in this thread and was unanswered a few months ago. Roughly how much a square metre could you expect to add for labour and materials?

    I'm interested, please send me some more info. Newcastles not too far away or do you offer one in Scotland?
    Last edited by amestaper; 28-07-2009 at 04:29 PM. Reason: added the link
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    If anyone need the tools for this system - give me a shout not all up on the website but have them available.

    also the sprayers, we have customers using both the mark 5 and airlessco sl1500 - Cracking deals on the mark 5 available direct through us.

    Got some good deals on smaller paint sprayers if any painters fancy putting down the roller for the tip!

    ps AmesTaper - do you paint as most ames tapers oop north?
    The Uk's No 1 Drylining & Plastering Tool Store
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    Quote Originally Posted by belmoreboy View Post
    ps AmesTaper - do you paint as most ames tapers oop north?
    No, I hate the job with a passion and would rather wipe my arse with a broken bottle, but I won't knock it back. I still quote for the work and subbie it to 2 decorators I know. Not providing the whole taping and painting package can cost you work sometimes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by amestaper View Post
    would rather wipe my arse with a broken bottle
    Nice !!
    The Uk's No 1 Drylining & Plastering Tool Store
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    Amestaper,

    the extra rate you can achieve really depends on the regional rates.

    As a guide you should be looking to take on half the decorators rate.

    As an example - if you are looking for lets say £5.00 per m2 for taping and the decorator wants £4.00 - you should be looking at @ £6.50m2.

    the wall or ceiling should then only need one further coat of emulsion at say £1.00 - £1.50 per m2 therefore offering an overall saving to the client / main contractor of £1.00 per m2.

    These rates are purely guidelines, however if you currently take the full taping and decorating package on but sub-out the painting I would ask what is your rate for taping, what do you pay the painter for mis-coat plus 2 emulsion , and ask them to requote you for just 1 coat.

    I am more than willing to discuss this further with anyone who is interested so either give me a call direct on the number below or reply to this posting.
    Cheers

    Michael

    Michael Anderson
    USG (UK) Ltd
    Tel :- 0770 331 4155
    E-Mail :- andersonm@usg.com
    Web-Site :- www.level-5.co.uk

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    Quote Originally Posted by belmoreboy View Post
    Nice !!
    You understand how much I like doing the job then?

    Quote Originally Posted by USG View Post
    As an example - if you are looking for lets say £5.00 per m2 for taping and the decorator wants £4.00 - you should be looking at @ £6.50m2.

    the wall or ceiling should then only need one further coat of emulsion at say £1.00 - £1.50 per m2 therefore offering an overall saving to the client / main contractor of £1.00 per m2.
    Let me get this right. Instead of a mist coat, and two coats of emulsion. I can tape as usual and spray it to a level 5 and get a comparable or even better finish with a single coat?
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    Amestaper - basically yes - the finish that you achieve with the system means it only needs one further coat of emulsion, or if your carefull it can be left as a finish - particularly on ceilings.

    If you are interested further let me know and we cold have a chat or meet up etc - as you say scotlands not that far from newcastle
    Cheers

    Michael

    Michael Anderson
    USG (UK) Ltd
    Tel :- 0770 331 4155
    E-Mail :- andersonm@usg.com
    Web-Site :- www.level-5.co.uk

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    Quote Originally Posted by USG View Post
    Without going into to much detail the training is FREE providing that you have a project to start, and we will work with you to secure your first project then look to train you around the timescales involved.
    Can you explain, is any training at your place or on site?

    Quote Originally Posted by USG View Post
    If you are interested further let me know and we cold have a chat or meet up etc - as you say scotlands not that far from newcastle
    Yes, I think we should.
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    Looking for the Level 6 posts? They've been moved here to their own thread for no reason other than it makes them easier to find.
    http://www.tapingandjointing.com/for...read.php?t=256
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    This topic is still active you know! Surely theres life in this one yet, or shall I close the thread down now?

    This definitely is a fascinating system in the evolution of drywall finishing and even though it may make a few painters unhappy I think it is the way forward. Using only 2 boxes rather than 3 and I dont have to sand the taping either? WTF?? This goes against the grain with what I was taught when learning this trade. At first glance the plus points I picked up on were I can do the job quicker, better as it has a tougher finish, I can make more dough, and I dont have to mess around with primer anymore.

    Top banana USG, now wheres my commission?

    BTW. I enjoyed our meet up at the demo in Peterlee last week and look forward to the next one youre hosting. When will that be if you don't mind me asking?
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    Keep the thread going, I'm sure there are a million (well a few anyway) questions that need to be asked about this new system and Michael (USG) and I are on hand to answer them for you. Like garlic bread ... it's the future.

    Nice logo BTW.

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    Default Rediwall

    i am predominantly a paint sprayer i only really got into the taping out of necessity. My issue was that I was always going into jobs to spray the walls and ceilings to find that the taper had tried to get away with a 2 box finish, it was only after I sprayed the wall that it highlighted the dips in the tapered boards. Then it was a case of arguing about who’s snag it was. It always pissed me off that the painter gets the blame for everyone else’s mistakes or shortcuts. So I learnt how to tape & Joint so that I got the surface 100% right for me to spray on. God knows how many times I have had to put another box on someone else’s work just so I wouldn’t get snagged on my own work.

    I would be more interested in the USG system if they were pushing the entire system, for example to tape, prospray, Tuffhide and then Rediwall, cos no disrespect to anyone, but the best profit and the fastest profit is in the top coating, if the rest of the wall is prepared to a good standard and the Tuffhide is tinted to the same colour as the wall is going to be finished, it would be so fast to put the topcoat on. On a good day I could spray between 350 – 500m2 on bare plasterboard, so if I was spraying on top of primer that was tinted to the same colour I could do acres in a day. I presume the Rediwall is 100% compatible with the Tuffhide, so there would be no difference in the colour of the Tuffhide to the colour of the Rediwall. Sometimes different products tint slightly different. A Dulux 10B15 would look slightly different to a Crown 10B15 colour. So therefore it wouldn’t make sense that the Rediwall was the specified finish on the prospray or Tuffhide. Is this the future plan.

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    sorry i meant, wouldnt it make more sense if the whole system was specified and marketed.

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    Like garlic bread ... it's the future.
    Like Futurama? Flying cars, teleports, time + space travel and smelly breath? What a thought LOL

    Nice logo BTW.
    Thanks Ian!
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    Default Level 5 Specification

    Phil,

    USG are committed to promoting the full system, and have completed and are currently involved in numerous projects of various sizes from 1,000m2 up to 48,000m2 for the complete system.

    We constantly promote the level 5 finish as a faster more efficient way of finishing drywall, blockwork and concrete that leaves a superior finish to traditional methods.

    (If you wish to discuss this further please call me on the details below)

    With regards to the inter face of usng Tuffhide and RediWall the two products would not be used together or on top of each other.

    They would both be spray applied over the ProSpray base coat.

    The main difference is that Tuffhide is promoted as an equivilant to a mis-coat and 1 coat of emulsion, therefore leaving a final coat to be applied by a decorator. We have however completed numerous projects where the White Tuffhide has been accepted and left as a final finish on Plasterboard ceilings.

    The RediWall on the other hand is the equivilant to a mis-coat plus 2 coats of emulsion, therefore suitable for leaving as an overall finished surface.

    The RediWall product can also be supplied with "Silver technology" which helps prevents the spread of superbugs such as MRSA & E-Coli amongst others.

    Again if you wish to discuss these difference further either call me direct or post a further reply.
    Cheers

    Michael

    Michael Anderson
    USG (UK) Ltd
    Tel :- 0770 331 4155
    E-Mail :- andersonm@usg.com
    Web-Site :- www.level-5.co.uk

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    Default level 5 finish...

    Let's stay with the basic's.

    Tape, top , skim, prep and sand.
    We gotten away from what the trade really is. A skilled craftsmen. We are cutting corners and skipping coats to achieve the best quality finish. We gotten I believe to dependent on mastering the tools instead of mastering the hand tools. An average drywall finisher can do 6000 sq. ft. of board a day...thats how we train our guys hear in Northern California. They push the tools to get level 3 finish and then we train our apprentices to achieve level 5 smooth wall by hand. 6ooo sq. ft. a day can be done. With very minium sanding to no sanding...no photographing - telegraphing...a quality finish.

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    i dont really believe we are cutting corners, i believe that using systems like the USG, knauf or the Level-6 the aim is achieving a high quality finish a little bit quicker than by traditional methods. from my own point of view i like to offer a result that is better than my competitors, but i also like to make a good healthy profit. so if by using machanical tapers, spray plaster skims, and a single application top-coat i can complete the project in half the time whilst still offering 1st class results, then i am going to do so. you have to stay one step ahead of everyone else, offer something new and original it gets more enquiries and more chances to tender for jobs. thats just my opinion anyway.

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