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Thread: How to Achieve a Level 5 Finish

  1. #21
    herbert weiler
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    Default herbert


    hello level 5 is the finish can be done with many other products like any joint cement by hand and by machine

    if you look at alltek, and sto, ect.

    and you can spray paint the walls as well

    The system how usg sells it can be expensive

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    Does tufhide come in different colours ?
    no painter has ever followed our work with one coat if its magnolia or any other colour than white and then they will only agree to do the ceilings with one coat. We have been using sprayplast (like tuffhide) They reckon it is very difficult to get perfect coverage with zero flashing in just one coat.

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    Level 5 finish, is an actual spec in North America, essentially it is 3 boxes and then coating the whole wall, used to be by hand, but since the mark V came out, there isn't much point in doing it that way. The concept behind it is to create an absolutely perfect flat finish, with no chance of joints telegraphing. What we are doing in the UK is slightly different, as it is more or less looking at a better option to plaster and has a bit more room for slight imperfections. A very good smooth, flat hard finish can be a chieved by
    1. paper tape- most effectively applied with a bazooka
    2. 1 box (8 or 10)
    3. spot your screws -i would reccomend twice with filler the first time to avoid shrinkage
    4. first coat internals (bazooka,corner roller, corner finisher)
    it may be worth using rigid internal corners or ammoflex which can be run through the taper and holds its shape, to make the internals as clean as possible
    5. External corner tape, again Usg, no coat or strait flex recomended, it may be worth second coating them, particularly if they are standing proud
    6. knock your snots off & or light sand
    7. spray pro spray with mark V 1.5 - 2 mil thickness and lay off with trowel/knife of choice
    8. light sand to take off high points
    9. spray tough hide
    the most cost effective way is to combine the autoamtic taping tools with the Mark V. I have been playing with this system both in the states and since it was introduced in the UK, any questions please feel free to get in touch with me. We also offer combination kits which include the Mark V, bag roller, hopper, NorthStar tools, Miro sanders or any combination of the above. some of which are listed on our website
    cheers Dan Mills

    D M Solutions
    Premium finishing tools

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    are you using any setting compounds in that system

    also if you are spraying tuff hide and pro spray over everything can you tell me the following, i would find it very useful
    1, Are you finishing flush with the board when you bazooka flats
    2 Would mesh be cheaper or quicker
    3 could you just spray the 8 or 10 box equivelent and spatula it flat
    4 whats the secret for minimum sanding on the pro spray and what do u use to sand hand or machine
    5 can you tint the tuff hide
    6 what the ruff cost a mtr for this system, the last time i did it we were buying the sprayplast in small blue barrels from wetndry costing about 30p mtr i think and was not doing the pro spray
    we used their box filler and box compound aswell.
    I will have loads more questions so beware

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    also if you are spraying tuff hide and pro spray over everything can you tell me the following, i would find it very useful
    1, Are you finishing flush with the board when you bazooka flats
    no just bed the tapes and let hem dry for an hour or two so they bond to the board, it is a common mistake, because people here are used to doing a mesh tape filler option which you fill the bevel at the same time, you can let the box do that for you
    2 Would mesh be cheaper or quicker
    i don't think so, becuase you would be running a box over it anyway, so paper tape w/ bazooka would be quicker
    3 could you just spray the 8 or 10 box equivelent and spatula it flat
    you can but i think it is slower, with the box you can set it to finish it exactly as you want, feathered just right. with the sorayer you will be spraying then messing with it to get the right cover
    4 whats the secret for minimum sanding on the pro spray and what do u use to sand hand or machine
    good technique! I usually run the machine at around 2700 psi so it is not hitting the wall so hard an make a vertical and then horizontal pass with the gun so it has even coverage over the whole wall, then using a large metal blade, 22-24" lightly lay it off, really just running the blade over the wall to smooth it and take out any incosnsiosttencies in the first coat
    5 can you tint the tuff hide
    yes, usg can do it for you
    6 what the ruff cost a mtr for this system, the last time i did it we were buying the sprayplast in small blue barrels from wetndry costing about 30p mtr i think and was not doing the pro spray
    we used their box filler and box compound aswell.
    Correct me if i am wrong, but last time i looked into it, it was around 1.40 per sq m, factoring in around 1 liter per meter coverage from pro spray, a bit over 3 for tough hide

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    arite very helpful. Thanks very much.

    More questions i'm on a roll.

    what sort of money do you reckon could or is charged for this system

    how much more will usg charge you to tint the tuff hide and how long would it take to order ie if i was a gallon short of magnolia could i get it tinted and supplied next day.

    where do you buy these products and are they in stock always

    Do you use any setting compounds in your systems, what you descibed would hang soft wouldnt it in this time of year. if you do is that done by hand.

    Is the Mark v more powerfull than a sl 1500

    do you use the mark v for tuff hide or can you go smaller like say a 495 st max

    what tips do you recomend
    do you think tuffhide can be rolled

  7. #27
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    Just a quick point that seem to have been missed out of this conversation..... Approved contractor status!

    At USG we hold a list of contractors who have been approved which are passed onto Main Contractors on when projects/specs come to light. We base these lists on areas covered by contractors.

    This is also called on by other contractors on the list when working away from home and are looking for local labour.
    Danny Clark
    Area Sales Manager - Scotland, Cumbria & North East
    USG (UK) Ltd
    Mobile - 07703 314 158
    Email - dclark@usg.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMS View Post
    Level 5 finish, is an actual spec in North America, essentially it is 3 boxes and then coating the whole wall, used to be by hand, but since the mark V came out, there isn't much point in doing it that way. The concept behind it is to create an absolutely perfect flat finish, with no chance of joints telegraphing. What we are doing in the UK is slightly different, as it is more or less looking at a better option to plaster and has a bit more room for slight imperfections. A very good smooth, flat hard finish can be a chieved by
    1. paper tape- most effectively applied with a bazooka
    2. 1 box (8 or 10)
    3. spot your screws -i would reccomend twice with filler the first time to avoid shrinkage
    4. first coat internals (bazooka,corner roller, corner finisher)
    it may be worth using rigid internal corners or ammoflex which can be run through the taper and holds its shape, to make the internals as clean as possible
    5. External corner tape, again Usg, no coat or strait flex recomended, it may be worth second coating them, particularly if they are standing proud
    6. knock your snots off & or light sand
    7. spray pro spray with mark V 1.5 - 2 mil thickness and lay off with trowel/knife of choice
    8. light sand to take off high points
    9. spray tough hide
    the most cost effective way is to combine the autoamtic taping tools with the Mark V. I have been playing with this system both in the states and since it was introduced in the UK, any questions please feel free to get in touch with me. We also offer combination kits which include the Mark V, bag roller, hopper, NorthStar tools, Miro sanders or any combination of the above. some of which are listed on our website
    cheers Dan Mills

    D M Solutions
    Premium finishing tools
    Hi DMS
    Our system is almost quite the same, we do use a bazooka and flushers, our 2nd coat is done by hand, and we spray the 3rd coat on with mud for a level 4 finish and if a level 5 is called for then we spray everything, let dry and spray with a primer sand then top coat.

    I have attached a link if you want to see how we do it any comments or questions would be appreciated.

    http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=drywall+taping+level5+&search _type=

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    what coat are you spraying there and what material

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    Quote Originally Posted by theblones View Post
    what coat are you spraying there and what material
    Hi Theblones

    We spray our 3rd coat and we use straight mud tinted with the Never Miss coloring gel this achieves a level 4 finish, when we need to do a level 5 finish same mixture of mud and just spray the entire surface.

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    Default usg level 5

    you are kidding yourself if you think level 5 work wont affect your wages,think the painter is going to stand bye and see his labour reduced by half,Level 4 taping takes talent to achieve.you will be reduced to level 3 work,the painter will start to out bid you on the level 5,any twit can spray/roll mud and take it back off the wall.they(painters) will start saying they do better job of checking,no need for call backs,saves you time,will level 5 walls for less money etc....
    only one who will win here is USG pushing their product

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2buck View Post
    you are kidding yourself if you think level 5 work wont affect your wages,think the painter is going to stand bye and see his labour reduced by half,Level 4 taping takes talent to achieve.you will be reduced to level 3 work,the painter will start to out bid you on the level 5,any twit can spray/roll mud and take it back off the wall.they(painters) will start saying they do better job of checking,no need for call backs,saves you time,will level 5 walls for less money etc....
    only one who will win here is USG pushing their product
    In my experience T&Js who do a Level 5 project in the England with USG receive more money per m2 for doing that than they do for a standard taped finish

    The person who suffers in England s the painter.

    In Scotland where the market is different, the guys doing our system are no worse off
    Cheers

    Michael

    Michael Anderson
    USG (UK) Ltd
    Tel :- 0770 331 4155
    E-Mail :- andersonm@usg.com
    Web-Site :- www.level-5.co.uk

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    Quote Originally Posted by USG View Post
    In my experience T&Js who do a Level 5 project in the England with USG receive more money per m2 for doing that than they do for a standard taped finish

    The person who suffers in England s the painter.

    In Scotland where the market is different, the guys doing our system are no worse off
    my point exactly,business is business,you say the person who suffers is the painter,lost labour is lost wages,lost wages is lost money,money = life/living,push a man enough he will go to war
    we had had painters coming in to price war us on spray/knock down ceilings twenty years ago,so we fought back by pricing the prime coat/1st coat to pay them back,they stopped
    any level four job should suffice if your a good J&t,and yes it takes talent ,but no matter which trade does it you win ....RIGHT
    how long has your product been in north America,what share of the market do you have doing level 5 --2% ...I know there's some call for level 5 work in commercial jobs...but residential ......NUTZ

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    Let me explain the differences, but these are not set in stone, between the Scottish and English sub contract models.

    In Scotland, the taping and painting is mostly tendered under the same contract to one company. There can be no arguments over walls and ceiling finishes and I take any problems to the contractor that hung the sheets.

    In England (for English and Irish contractors) Ive worked with, the taping is sometimes taken on by the same company that do the stud work and hang the plasterboard / drywall while the painting is done seperately on another contract by another firm. I've seen a lot of bitching on these jobs.

    I only take my taping finish up to a level 4 due to not ever being asked to tender for a level 5 contract, the expense of the spray tools needed, and not wanting to take food from the mouths of my good friends, the painters, who send me all their taping work.

    And likewise, I make sure they get all the painting work that comes my way.

    So... hypothetically speaking, in Scotland anyway, if I was a bigger company than I was at the moment - it would be a viable option for me to accept both the taping to level 5 and the painting under one contract without any eyebrows being raised.
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    Default me again

    ok got you ames taper,England and Ireland more like Canada then,In general most guys where I'm from work for a large employer where up to 200 to 300 guys/lads are employed.lets say painters and taper not of the same family.most contractors/home builders hire painters by separate contract,so the painter can say "yeah this tape job is good"

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