Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Butt Joints From Hell

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    30
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts

    Default Butt Joints From Hell


    sorry put this in the wrong forum before.
    have been reading posts about Pronto tape etc, but I agree that i could imagine the joints showing on a butt joint especially on a ceiling. What does everyone else do when faced with a butt jointed ceiling which needs painting with a satin or silk finish. I find it quite time consuming, I tend to use the wetínístick tape as I find the scrim needs more covering, I then put an easy sand 45 compound over the top, then I do a seven inch either side of the join and then a 12 inch either side to feather it in. then a light sand.

    Due to the fact itís a big ceiling (200m2) and its going to have a sheen I think its critical that the joint is feathered in as much as possible. sometimes I spray the last coat of compound on using Sto spray skim, but its still quite a long drawn out process especially when the budget is tight,

    Would everyone agree that I am not going over the top, or does anyone have a faster but equally efficient way of doing it without compromising the finished result?

  2. #2
    Member USG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    48
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts

    Default

    Phil,

    we recommend more or less what you do to achieve a level 5 finish on ceilings with butt edge boards.

    All the joints would need to be over lapped using paper tape taking it upto a 12inch box depending onthe boarding, before spray applying the Sheetrock ProSpray and Sheetrock Tuffhide.

    This should then leave a seamless finish regardless of a silk emulsion being applied.
    Cheers

    Michael

    Michael Anderson
    USG (UK) Ltd
    Tel :- 0770 331 4155
    E-Mail :- andersonm@usg.com
    Web-Site :- www.level-5.co.uk

  3. #3
    Season ticket holder amestaper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    2,603
    Thanks
    423
    Thanked 281 Times in 226 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phil View Post
    Would everyone agree that I am not going over the top, or does anyone have a faster but equally efficient way of doing it without compromising the finished result?
    Hi Phil.

    I'm not sure I completely understand your question, or whether youre asking two seperate ones? Personally I would have priced the job a bit higher than normal to give me some leeway and options if things don't quite go as expected.

    I agree with your comment about not going over the top and I guarantee you will have a sore neck if a 200m2 ceiling is your complete work area with no walls to break the monotony. I find I subconsciously grind my teeth when staring at ceilings all day, I dont know why LOL. Are you taping the job yourself?

    You mentioned the budget was tight. Does this completely rule out you spraying a finish over the area?

    If it does and you cant budget for spraying then I would try, and then try again to convince your client to go with a matt finish. If this is unsuccessful and the sheen effect is a definite spec, I would make absolutely sure your butt joins are crowned and feathered at least 12 inches either side because any deviation in depth will always be there. Its down to you how you disguise it my friend.

    Have you considered applying a couple of good coats of primer with a heavy sheepskin roller? Ive used Leyland Leytex and that was great at eliminating flashing while leaving a slight mottled texture on the work area that took the eye away from the butt joins.

    I am one of those guys who refuses to leave a shit job even if it leaves me out of pocket. If nothing else works and you promised (and thats whats really important) your client a smooth as glass like finish then I would pay the extra for a level 5 or the level 6 system you mentioned in another thread.

    Just my two bobs worth and hope it helps.
    Your messages are really important to us
    ...but not important enough to employ a sufficient number of support staff to answer them.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to amestaper For This Useful Post:

    phil (03-09-2009)

  5. #4
    Member Lightrock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Edmonton Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    86
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 16 Times in 15 Posts

    Default if the ceiling is for paint

    I don't know about faster; but if I am going to do a ceiling with butt joints i am going to hand trowel them about 3 feet wide, if there is critical light I am going to go 4 feet wide, its only an extra half hour or so in a large room say, 20'x30' (yes i realize 200m2 is a lot bigger than this but i use the scale i work in). If the designer placed windows high on a south or west wall, I am going to trowel the whole damn thing. and it Will be gorgeous. cathedral ceilings.. well that is a lot more than an hour, but I did skim one of those too, the builder just paid me extra cause he saw me give extra. By all means explain the difference between spec and done well and hopefully get paid to upgrade.


    ...your results may differ, past results are no indication of future performance. taxes and licensing extra, allow 4-6 weeks delivery, offer void where prohibited by law
    Plumb and Level are the framer's perogative ...I can give you flat and straight... www.lightrocktaping.com

  6. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    30
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts

    Default

    the problem with that Michael is that there seems to be a lot of applications, how many boxes on the taping are you doing before you put the prospray on, and then you need to put the tuffhide on before you paint with the silk finish paint. also that is a lot of materials so what would my costs be. the job is 300m2 including ceilings & the bulkheads, what do you think your system would cost me in materials and labour not including the silk finish. to make it easy i have two people on the job getting £150 a day. there is another 300m2 section to come. so give me an idea of the costs involved if you had two lads on £150 a day on 300m2 to tape, prospray & tuffhide.

    The other problem is that the budget is tight as they all are nowadays so i dont want it to cost me the earth. Although i do like the sound of your system.

  7. #6
    Member USG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    48
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts

    Default

    The Tuffhide & the ProSpray would work out about £1.50m2 - £1.75m2 depending on who its purchased through, which would then need one final coat of your silk emulsion.

    I would allow for a good feathered 7" and a good feathered 10" either side of the joint to ensure its taken away.

    Give me a call for more accurate costs on the Prospray and Tuffhide
    Cheers

    Michael

    Michael Anderson
    USG (UK) Ltd
    Tel :- 0770 331 4155
    E-Mail :- andersonm@usg.com
    Web-Site :- www.level-5.co.uk

  8. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    30
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts

    Default

    good news, firstly thanks Michael for your help and i will get in touch with you soon about doing a course on the pro-spray, however on this job i sent in a spec sheet for the Level-6 and they have moved away from the vinyl silk finish and are letting me use this. The guy knew about the level-6 product but said it sounds exactly the same as a product called (Wall In One) sold by a company called FCR or something he said they were using that on one of their other refurbs as a sample, but i cant seem to find them.

    so now i am going to feather out the joint to 12 inch either side and just whack on the primer/topcoat. so thanks everyone for your advice

    just going back a few paces, Michael you say that the material cost for prospray & tuffhide would be between 1.50 & 1.75 pm2 then i need to decorate, well how many metres would a two man team complete in a day. or rather how long would it take your best two man team to tape & spray 300m2 1st tape then with prospray then sanding and then with tuffhide, i know i keep pushing on this point but its quite important. the material price can be brilliant but if it takes twice as long i would lose rather than gain as my labour costs would shoot up.

  9. #8
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    ogden, utah
    Posts
    2
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    hangers need to use clips, one stud back, on each side of the butt. it bows the rock out and then comes in hollow on the butt. its all an illusion any way- you're not tapeing a level wall anyway- sides- the lumber is still drying in house- it aint kiln dried. thats one reason our art looks bad in a year, the lumber- dried out in the house. frameing- hangers need to be on top of that. thats why a great hanger is worth his weight in gold. course that does depend on how much he weighs.

  10. #9
    Season ticket holder amestaper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    2,603
    Thanks
    423
    Thanked 281 Times in 226 Posts

    Default

    lol. Welcome to the site. I've seen kiln dried CLS timber lie outside open to the elements in snow, ice and monsoon weather for days, weeks even, and then the site management scratched their head as to why the joints crack when the heating goes on. Funny, stupid and I get paid twice.

    I know some hangers who dont give a shit and still make the same mistake again and again.
    Your messages are really important to us
    ...but not important enough to employ a sufficient number of support staff to answer them.

  11. #10
    Member moore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Virginia USA
    Posts
    66
    Thanks
    20
    Thanked 29 Times in 21 Posts

    Default

    That's every job here. I put at the bottom of my bill.
    NOT responsible for lumber shrinkage due to high content of moisture in lumber.
    It seems were the only ones that know what lumber shrinkage means,, when It's really common sense..Walk into a newly framed home and drive a nail or screw into a stud,,It goes in pretty easy,, Walk into that same home 1or2 years later and try it.. not so easy ..right?? I tape my seams@butts with ss90 year round .

  12. #11
    Member moore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Virginia USA
    Posts
    66
    Thanks
    20
    Thanked 29 Times in 21 Posts

    Default

    Here's A bastard for ya... You think the hangers could of looked up and said ....hey maybe we shouldn't break on that truss.....NOT!.. What they were thinking was this...Lets throw this up , and get a check from moore.....

    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to moore For This Useful Post:

    E.K Taper (30-10-2011)

  14. #12
    Season ticket holder amestaper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    2,603
    Thanks
    423
    Thanked 281 Times in 226 Posts

    Default

    Nope. They blame the factory or shop that manufactured the kit, or joiners who built the studs. There are still another two trades coming in the door after them to make good their shoddy work. Is that joint +4 foot wide?
    Your messages are really important to us
    ...but not important enough to employ a sufficient number of support staff to answer them.

  15. #13
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    ogden, utah
    Posts
    2
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    and quaility. that is the is.

  16. #14
    Member moore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Virginia USA
    Posts
    66
    Thanks
    20
    Thanked 29 Times in 21 Posts

    Default

    This is how that butt started out. If they had brought It back a joist that down joist would not have been my problem..Know what I mean?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  17. #15
    Season Ticket Holder scottishlad2k10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    scotland
    Posts
    548
    Thanks
    23
    Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moore View Post
    This is how that butt started out. If they had brought It back a joist that down joist would not have been my problem..Know what I mean?
    i know this all too well see when f***ers dont put in dwangs! or noggings! WP_002391.jpg recently had to go to a job as the client noticed another contractor left them this...... result? cutting letterbox holes in the wall and inserting 3x2" dwangs!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Why the hell do people use steel plastering beads and caulk corners?????
    By scottishlad2k10 in forum Taping, jointing and drywall finishing
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 13-12-2012, 07:01 AM
  2. Stairway to Hell
    By E.K Taper in forum Taping, jointing and drywall finishing
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 27-10-2011, 09:58 PM
  3. Filling joints with a box?
    By TJ Dizzy in forum Taping, jointing and drywall finishing
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 03-10-2011, 10:35 AM
  4. Filling out joints
    By TJ Dizzy in forum Taping, jointing and drywall finishing
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-11-2010, 12:35 AM
  5. Spraying Joints
    By herbert in forum Taping, jointing and drywall finishing
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 12-10-2009, 10:20 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •