New to taping and jointing

[Callyknockbride]

Hi I'm new to this and would like some help the company I work for does a lot of office fit outs and instead of getting tapers in we have started into looking to do it ourselves, I see over in the UK you can do part time courses to learn and was wondering is there such a thing over here in Ireland, I have some know how but would love to learn from an experienced person to get good and quick, also what is the best way to finish butt joints some people we got done them with scrim tape but as soon as there painted over you can see the bumps in the wall which stands out badly hope some one can help.
thanks in advance.

[Beermonster]

Leave the scrim at home for a start!
(This will go down well)
Bust the joints out 12 either side and skim it in with a trowel or knife which will help!
But u can't hide everything unless u plaster the whole wall/Ceileng!

[rabbyc]

Why leave the scrim at home???? The less build up you have on a joint/bump the better so if scrim adds less then it's best, in any case the wiser you coat out a bump the better it looks simple as that!!

[rabbyc]

oopps should say wider........not wiser!

[taperjoe]

I'd always scrim tape a button joint less build up and especially in an office fit out.. as said above less build up..

[prjwebb]

Fibafuse sits down real nice on butts.

[Beermonster]

Why leave the scrim at home???? The less build up you have on a joint/bump the better so if scrim adds less then it's best, in any case the wiser you coat out a bump the better it looks simple as that!!

Read my post again!
I 12 box either side of butt joints so that would b like 24 inches wide!! (Simple as that LOL)
And I would never trust scrim on a butt joint.

[Beermonster]

Fibafuse sits down real nice on butts.

Would rather use fiba fuse than fiba tape any day of the week!

[rabbyc]

No ones questioned how wide you coat out the joints.............i've suggested scrim may be better though the difference is minimal i'm still waiting for you to explain why you wouldn't use scrim, as i'm always willing to learn...............even at my age....!!

[rabbyc]

I saw you do the job the way it should be done......(a lot won't double box) i wasn't casting aspersions, but i was letting the original poster know that the most important think with any butt or uneven joints was to take your coats wider and sweeten the imperfection away, and the tape you lose was less important...............i'm still unsure what you mean by not trusting scrim on a butt joint, i've never seen a problem in 30 years.........so be interesting to hear your perceived pitfalls

[E.K Taper]

I use scrim all the time, and don't get problems. If the boards are good then you've nothing to worry about. There is a slight risk of cracking with scrim tape, but as I said I've never had any issues. Beermonster comes from the north of Scotland, where scrim tape is seen to be the work of the Devil for some reason!! Chill out Beermonster, fiba tape rules!!

[rabbyc]

Your right if there's enough movement, joints can crack but then again the paper tape would blister, and i know what's the cleanest and easiest to repair...........30 years ago we had to use paper tape.............things have progressed a bit since then........thankfully..............for me fiba is as good as paper and certainly quicker...............so i'm with you on this one fiba tape rules!!

[Callyknockbride]

thanks guys for your help i guess i just have to keep practicing thanks again

[prjwebb]

I could put up the photos of all the scrim butts cracking in my house... I've used scrim in the past and had no issues but whoever did my house blew it. I suspect 2 coating with Easifill and no solid fastest.
I think it's crucial to use something that sets off rock hard with scrim as softer, full process compounds don't cut it.
I'd personally rather use a premix compound for the whole process and use Fibafuse and paper.
If the job is tiny and I don't want multiple trips I'll go fastest and scrim or Fibafuse for the first coat though.
As far as finishing my butts, I'll bed the tape with the zook on day 1 and then on day 2 when I'm 8" boxing the tapers I'll run that either side of the butts, nearly wide open. Day 3 with the 10" on the tapers I'll run that overlapping the 8" so it ends up maybe 14 or 15" either side. Then on the final 12" box I'll run that over the centre of the butts.
Probably more work than needed but it leaves a good finish and I charge accordingly.

[Beermonster]

I could put up the photos of all the scrim butts cracking in my house... I've used scrim in the past and had no issues but whoever did my house blew it. I suspect 2 coating with Easifill and no solid fastest.
I think it's crucial to use something that sets off rock hard with scrim as softer, full process compounds don't cut it.
I'd personally rather use a premix compound for the whole process and use Fibafuse and paper.
If the job is tiny and I don't want multiple trips I'll go fastest and scrim or Fibafuse for the first coat though.
As far as finishing my butts, I'll bed the tape with the zook on day 1 and then on day 2 when I'm 8" boxing the tapers I'll run that either side of the butts, nearly wide open. Day 3 with the 10" on the tapers I'll run that overlapping the 8" so it ends up maybe 14 or 15" either side. Then on the final 12" box I'll run that over the centre of the butts.
Probably more work than needed but it leaves a good finish and I charge accordingly.

U said it!! Cracks!!!
Paper won't blister either if there is some movement Rabby!
Well not if its done right in the first place!!

[Beermonster]

I use scrim all the time, and don't get problems. If the boards are good then you've nothing to worry about. There is a slight risk of cracking with scrim tape, but as I said I've never had any issues. Beermonster comes from the north of Scotland, where scrim tape is seen to be the work of the Devil for some reason!! Chill out Beermonster, fiba tape rules!!

I'm chilled EK
Waiting for fiba fuse to take out the stuff without that f*cking crease in it then that's what I will b changing to for flats!!
Another thing is a company I work for has started using RC bar stuff for sound deadening instead of double sheeting and when u box the actual ceiling moves!! Well I don't fancy using scrim in that circumstances.
B crack city I would say!
Now if I could get my hands on some vario!!

[rabbyc]

I have never said joints don't crack, if there is excessive movement of course they will, i'm merely stating that paper tape blisters as opposed to cracking, if you go back to a new house, well with barrett it was after 6 months, on some internal angles and above doors you can get what best can be described as a serrated blister.......but in fairness i'm going back 25 years, and like you it was all machine taping taping then, if as you insinuate there is more remedial work needed now due to cracking, i'm sure the main contractors would insist upon paper tape, but the fact is the vast majority of tapers use scrim tape with no more comebacks than the guys using paper tape, provided as you say the lobs done correctly and the right materials are used, when fiba tape first came out most builders wouldn't allow it, i even had a London contractor rip it off, but being a plasterer, i could never really see the validity in this reluctance, as far as i was concerned it was merely an adhesive scrim similar in to what we had used for years when plastering ceilings..................so if it stops plaster for cracking...........well unless your advocating we use paper tape when plastering too.....for me paper and fiba both stop cracking, fibas just quicker to use, and anything that reduces build up on butt joints is better, i'm doing a school 3.8m high walls and only boarded 1 side so a lot of movement, i'm actually surprised how well the fiba tape is doing without cracking......

[drywaller fininisher]

That's Right! In some cases on butt joints,depending on if sunlight is against it From The Side. I go Once over tape with box setting on 3or4, Then on both sides of that with the box setting either wide open (NoPresure on the blade of the box) or setting#1 of the box, wiping down behind each boxed area with 12" or 14" knife with really light pressure with handle close to the wall. Then Notice The Difference, as How in Direct Sunlight, How Will Appear to Skip Accoss The Board As Though A Solid Smooth Surface. I have done of work in Atriums ,And Have with Dealt With Sunlight. So you see my friend Scrims Are Not Acceptable in Professional Work.

[rabbyc]

A plasterer uses scrim every day of the week, and it's far more skilled than taping...!
Scim/paper tape is only there to stop the material from cracking.............ultimately it's how the tapes are coated/finished that determine how they look, especially when sunlight or light shines across it.................you shouldn't be able to see the joint, let alone know what tape was used.................well if your a professional anyway..!

[craigflorimo]

I've stopped using scrim.. Too prone to cracking, especially in truss ceilings. I put the paper tapes in with ready mix finish compound ..( yellow lid, B&Q ) and take advantage of it shrinking a bit back into the taper. Got to fill any gaps first with easy fill or they'll peak. ( I find knauf boards the best.. Wicks )... Let it fully dry and start going over with easy fill as normal then top coat with ready mix. I sand my final easy fill coat with my Porto cable.. Why not? Then buff the ready mix.. Flawless and doesn't crack.. Ever. Takes longer but..